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Offline Gamewriter  
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2013 2:43:22 AM(UTC)

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A rep at Unreal said I could develop for Xbox Live Indie Games with Unreal, but after going back and forth a few times I realized that she said I could distribute any way I wanted to after making the game, including through XBLIG. However, there were legal restrictions requiring me to be an Xbox 360 Registered Developer and use a Xbox 360 Developer's Kit when using Unreal Engine to make Xbox games. So I realized that I had been asking the wrong question at the various game engine forums I've been visiting lately.

Hopefully I now have the question worded properly:

Will I need to be an Xbox 360 Registered Developer and use an Xbox 360 Developer's Kit to create Xbox games with the Delta Engine and distribute them via XBox Live Indie Games?

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Offline Benjamin  
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2013 3:23:18 AM(UTC)

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Yes, has nothing really do to with the Delta Engine or Unreal or whatever. It is a decision of Microsoft if they allow you to sell games on their platform. There are basically 4 ways to distribute games on Xbox 360:
- Microsoft approved your game and is your publisher directly (highly unlikely, they will mostly do this with internal games or known partners). You still need to become a Xbox Developer & use a Xbox Dev Kit.
- You find another publisher that can publish games on Xbox, again you have to become a Xbox Developer & use a Xbox Dev Kit (if you are a bigger studio). This is what we did in the past with our game Fireburst.
- You develop a Xbox Arcade game and either Microsoft or a publisher that still has a free Arcade slot features you (even more unlikely, but possible if you have a famous game)
- You develop an XNA game and publish it yourself on Xbox Live Indie Games (you still need to be community approved however). No Xbox Dev Kit required, just sign up for $99/year as a XBLIG developer and use your normal Xbox, thats it. This is by by far the easiest option for indies. However it is also the least financially attractive option: http://arstechnica.com/g...g/2011/07/xblig-feature/

With the Delta Engine you can currently develop games using XNA with output platforms Windows, Windows Phone and Xbox. You can publish as Xbox Indie Games yourself without becoming a registered XBox Developer on XBLIG like you mentioned. If there is demand we might also include developing XBox Arcade support because there is not much difference and we can support both C# XNA output or C++ DirectX output for Xbox (some work required of course, but no other engine can do that, they are either C# or C++, never both).

Hope this helps. If you have more questions, fire away.

Edited by user Sunday, August 11, 2013 3:26:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Added info to XBLIG

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Gamewriter on 8/13/2013(UTC)
Offline Cr3dos  
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2013 8:14:23 PM(UTC)

Joined: 8/22/2011(UTC)
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This system will change with the xbox one.
Microsoft will hold a press conference at the gamescom(21.-25.08.2013) about this topic.

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Gamewriter on 8/13/2013(UTC)
Offline Gamewriter  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2013 6:50:10 AM(UTC)

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Thanks for the clearest answer I've received on any forum. I do have other questions.

A) The SunBurn EULA forbids the creation of educational games and simulation software on Xbox and Windows Phone 7. This is a bit of a concern to us as we have made training simulators for various branches of the U.S. armed services, and may do so again in future. I would hate to learn the ins and outs of an engine and then find out later that I cannot use my knowledge for government work. Are there any restrictions like this on what kind of software can be made on various platforms with the Delta Engine?

Budget questions:
B) In order to compile to different target platforms, is the developer required to purchase anything beyond the hardware itself? Any MonoTouch or MonoDroid licenses or other stuff?

C) Is there some chart detailing the hardware and license expenses involved in developing for various platforms? For example, if I want to port to an iPhone, I might want to get a used one on eBay to test the game. I assume I could download the game using Wi-Fi on the iPhone without having an expensive 4G data plan in place. Naturally I can slowly dig up this info surfing the 'Net, but before diving in I wanted to see if some helpful Delta Engine developer has already published a budget in a blog somewhere.

BTW, I have seen budgets from developers that intended to do a time-consuming port to several different platforms by hand. Yikes! I had my fill of that in the 80's and 90's. That's one reason I'm leaning towards Delta Engine.

Edited by user Monday, August 12, 2013 10:38:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline internetfreak  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:08:55 AM(UTC)

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I'm only a hobby game developer and not part of the staff but I'm a bit informed with DE since I work with it for a while now (since Dec. 2011) and I'm also sometimes in contact with Benjamin to get infos etc. I need to support DE, so I'll try to answer your questions :)

A) Afaik there's no such limit yet and I don't think that such a limitation will come since the DeltaEngine has the "Write once - deploy many" goal that means that you write your code once and then deploy it on every supported platform to reach the greatest audience without too much work (Ok, you'll probably need some modifications for some platforms depending on the hardware etc but most code should run on every supported platform without problems)

B) Currently all I know you have to buy is an appropriate license for the DE Services since DE is only free to use for PC, for other platforms you need a license to use their services but the pricing is very developer friendly, the basic-license only costs 5$/month and allows you to deploy to almost all supported platforms (this is what the current pricing page says so it could maybe change).
If you need all platforms or if you have a big company, you'll have to purchase the Company-license which costs 25$ per month which is also very fair.
Before the restart of DE you also had to buy MonoTouch/MonoDroid for deploying to Android/iOS but now I think it's not necessary anymore because if I understood it right, the DE will now come in an implementation for each platform which is used by the build service (don't nail me on this phrase, I could be wrong, for more info we have to wait for benjamin). We developers only get a C# and a C++ Version so all other implemenations are DE internals and only used for deploying on each platform. Again Benjamin would be the better person to answer but with my answer you should have some basic info.

C) As said in B you need a license to use the services for all platforms covered by the purchased license. The only thing you then need is the appropriate device for each platform you want to support to test it. from the past I can remember that you will be able to deploy an iOS app over WiFi so there's no need to have a 3G/4G connection only to test your app. Beside the hardware and the license cost I currently cannot remember any costs you need to pay to be able to use DE.

I hope I could cover most of your questions, if anything's unclear just ask and someone will help you :)
Mein Blog: www.internetfreak.net

- Inoffizieller DeltaEngine-Supporter und Tutorialschreiber -
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Gamewriter on 8/13/2013(UTC)
Offline Benjamin  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:32:37 AM(UTC)

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Thanks for the answers already, Internetfreak.

A) No restrictions whatsoever
B) We have simplified the pricing a bit for now (11 Euro or $15/month for full support, free for PC only). We have no plans to support MonoDroid or MonoTouch right now (we did in the past, but not much interest from our users). It is also far more exciting for us to have everything running with our own technology now.
C) Devices are not required, but make a lot of sense for testing your game or app. Normally you want to iterate often and quickly (daily, weekly, but certainly not just once at the end of your project). So you can build your whole game or app on the PC and never test it and the build services can make sure it runs, but you should have at least one kind of device for local testing. Not sure what you mean by iOS deployment, you can do it via a link, in intranet, over internet or just connect iTunes and push your package this way on the device. If you have MacOS you can of course also deploy via XCode or command line. Keep in mind that we are currently focusing on Android and Web support, iOS is planned for later in Milestone 5. Of course if there is demand, we can speed things up and focus more on whatever platform people want.
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